Saturday, June 23

Anyone for Cocoa

What is a Carman?

The Worshipful Company of Carman website with some historical information Link at http://www.thecarmen.co.uk A description of the work of carmen is found at Link to http://www.gander-exeter.freeserve.co.uk/gander/carmen.html The term "carman" is also used on railroads in USA and Nova Scotia and as a streetcar driver in UK. Usually it meant the driver of a covered cart. In colonial America carmen were regulated and had responsibilities for maintaining the streets. In the Dutch-Colonies mailing list Peter Christoph quotes from the Donogan Papers as follows: "The regulations in Albany in the 1680s appear in The Dongan Papers, 1683-1688, Part 1, pages 46-47 (where they are called Carmen). There were to be five and no more, appointed by the mayor and aldermen. They were to repair the streets when required by the mayor without compensation, cart the "dirt" (a euphemism) from all the streets to some convenient place. They were to be paid no more than three pence for hauling a load of goods except that for pantiles and bricks they were to be paid six pence, since they required special handling. The loads should be "reasonable for a horse to draw." The carmen are to unload and transport corn and wheat "with all possible speed." They are to make satisfaction for any goods they damage, and to behave civilly to all persons. No Negro or other slave shall drive a cart under penalty of twenty shillings to be paid by the owner of the slave (brewers' drays and beer carriages the only exceptions)." For all who have searched the surname Carman and found the occupation instead, this is a description of the English use of 'carman' as an occupation. The term was also used in 17c New York where carmen had specified responsibilities for maintaining roads. A carman was a delivery driver usually working for an employer. Could possibly be self-employed doing general haulage with his own horse and covered cart or wagon but these were mostly called 'carriers'. The Worshipful Company of Carmen was formed in 1516, to have the monopoly of plying for hire as carriers in the City. The Company would licence the vehicles, arrange where vehicles could stand awaiting custom and decide the rates to be charged. The livery colours are white and red, and a history of the Company (The Worshipful Company of Carmen by Eric Bennett, 1952) Records surviving at the Guildhall Library run from the 1660s to the late 20th century - the Court Minutes are the longest run, and some of the other records only cover very limited periods - lists of Freemen are only available up to the 18th Century, for example. In later time, a person may describe himself as a Carman, when he means that this is his trade, but if he is an employee within a large firm is most likely not to be a member of the Livery Company. The use of Carman (Master), or Master Carman probably indicates that the person is the proprietor of a firm of carriers, who may, therefore, (but not necessarily) be a member of the Livery Company.

Victualling Yard Entrance at Deptford


 1901


1888


1840?

Sunday, June 10

Miss Kitty Colyer.





http://www.rapunzelsdelight.com/evidence/images/img3.jpg





Miss Kitty Colyer played Cinderella at the Broadway Theatre Deptford in December 1920. A music hall singer and comedian of the 1920's Miss Kitty Colyer, was a well-known comedienne and dancer, and started her professional career at eleven years old She continued singing and dancing until she was eighteen, and then married. She left the stage for a few years. But an idle life did not suit her, and she said that during her absence from the stage she suffered from melancholia. She undertook all kinds of dancing, but gave special attention to acrobatic, toe, buck, and national dancing. Some of her most successful numbers were ''Good-bye, Jenny,'' ''My little snow house,'' ''Popping around,'' and ''Oh, Dolly.''

Saturday, June 9

A Tragic News Story from Deptford.


The fatal fire at Deptford was as sad in its consequences as the calamitous conflagration at Bethnal Green. We give a photograph of the fireplace of the room at 35, St Johns Road, Deptford, taken soon after the melancholy disaster on the 5th inst. At the inquest on the bodies of Thomas Aberthell aged 4 years; Amy, 3 years; Lily, 18 months, and Rose, aged four months, the four children who were asphyxiated in the fire, Lillian Aberthell, the mother, deposed that she left them sitting in the kitchen while she went to fetch some fish for her husband’s tea. When she had been away for about a quarter of an hour she returned, and was horrified to find the kitchen in flames. There were several people there, but apparently no one had made an attempt to save the children. She at once rushed in and succeeded in bringing out the two youngest but they were apparently dead. The Coroner commented on the carelessness of the parents having matches about in the way of the children as children were not able to appreciate the danger of fire, and would get matches whenever they had a chance. The Jury returned a verdict of accidental death.

Dog Attack at the Royal Oak Public House


A Deptford Suicide!



Saturday, June 2

The Gun Tavern


 


Deptford was also apparently the residence of the Earl of Nottingham, instrumental in helping destroy the Spanish Armada - he was supposed to have resided in the Gun Tavern. At the north end of Deptford Green, the Skinners Place property was leased to Lord Howard of Effingham, Admiral of England, in the late sixteenth century, and this appears to be the origin of the Lord High Admiral's official residence on the Green in the seventeenth century. It had two wharves with yards, several gardens enclosed with a brick wall, a barn and a stable, and a number, of houses held by sub-tenants. The main house was rebuilt shortly before 1568. This building later became the Gun Tavern and in 1807 it was converted into dwellings and warehouses owned by Messrs Gordon, Biddulph and Stanley, anchor-smiths. The property later passed to the General Steam Navigation Company.

Thursday, May 24

THE LOST VILLAGE CENTER OF DEPTFORD

THE LOST VILLAGE CENTER OF DEPTFORD

Historical Deptford was divided into Upper Deptford (based around Deptford Broadway) and Lower Deptford based around St Nicholas' Church, Deptford Green (formerly Common land?) and Deptford Strand as seen on the 1623 map. Deptford was primarily a fishing village before King Henry VIII founded the Dockyard in 1513.

Church Street acted as a buffer between Lower Deptford and Upper Deptford, and was lined fairly well with properties when Butt Lane (later the High Street) was all but a bare trackway. The Green/Depford Green/Common (not to be confused with the area around St Johns also referred to as Deptford Common) had several alleys leading eastwards to Barnard's Dockyard (later used by the General Steam Navigation Company for ship repair).

Butcher Row (now Borthwick Street) led to Lower Watergate, Middle Watergate (known as Great Thames Street), and Upper Watergate. Straddling Lower and Middle Watergate was Little Thames Street AKA Lower Road. The circulation of these four streets appear to have formed the village nucleus. Unfortunately, just prior to the survey of the 1844 tithe map, most of these streets and buildings were suddenly swept away before they even had a chance to be recorded photographically. What happened was: in 1836 the Deptford Pier and Improvement Company proposed to have a railway connection from the nearly completed line to Greenwich as well as a scheme to develop the river front for passenger and commercial purposes. In the following year the Pier company had already begun purchasing premises in Thames Street, Deptford Green and Butcher Row. By 1841 they seemed to own all the area between Butcher Row and the Thames. In 1843, a legal case was lodged against the company, and the Deptford Pier junction was abandoned. The pier company were replaced by Timothy Tyrrell as owner of the Pier land, occupying a wharf and warehouse, and leasing out many other properties. Unless there's a mistake on the Tithe map it would seem almost all buildings north of Butcher Row were demolished in 1843/44. Certainly they were gone by the 1860s.

Coming from the direction of the Deptford manor house known as Sayes Court (formerly a castle?), Dog Street (known later as New Row then Dock Street/Prince Street) and the top end of Watergate Street (formerly known as Old King Street) also had properties. At the junction between them stood a gateway in Watergate Street, hence the name, which was captioned on the 1833 Cruchley map. The gate can be glimpsed to the extreme right in a photograph taken of the street.

In-between Watergate Street and Deptford Green was an empty field except for maybe the church burial ground until several north-south streets--laid sometime between the late 17th and early 18th centuries--filled the gap. The burial ground, if it even existed before, was maintained as a strip of land parallel to the new streets; from west to east they were named Rope Walk, New Street (extended before 1755), Frenches Field leading to Rumbolols Rope Walk (known as Black Field near the burial ground), and Hughes Field.


 To give you an idea of the many buildings lost in the former center of Lower Deptford during the early part of the Victorian era, here is a directory of trades and industries (not including the many wharves) taken from the 1834 Pigot directory unless otherwise stated; I think its safe to say that the taverns and public houses, here in the heart of historical Deptford closest to the Thames, would have been frequented more by the many sailors, mariners and seamen than in any other part of the village:

Deptford Green

The George (before 1804)
Earl of Romney (John Dickenson 1839)
White Hart (John Hawkins 1839)
Plume of Feathers (Jo Topliffe Knnipple 1839)
Lion & Lamb (John Grix)
School/Academy (Adams, John Williams)
Baker (Lancaster, Joseph)
Engineer (Gordons and Co. and shipsmiths & ironfounders)
Marine Stores-Dealer (Johnson, John)
Plumbers/Painter/Glazier (Harrison and Son)
Shipbuilder (Barnard, Francis and Son)
Lower Watergate
Sir John Falstaff Public House (John Beswell)
Coal Merchant (Wells, Hesketh Davis)
Junk Merchant (Wells, Hesketh Davis)
Timber Merchant (W H Davis)

Butcher Row

Gun Tavern (possibly Henry Mears 1804)
Blue Bell (William Collier 1834, Christopher William Collier 1839)
Ship Chester (James West)
Three Tuns (William Shirley 1834, Elizabeth Shirley 1839)
Carpenter (Deane, Anthony F)
Marine Stores-Dealer (Townsend, John)
Shopkeeper/Groceries and Sundries Dealer (Fowles, John)
Thames Street (Little and Great?)
Earl of Romney (John Dickenson 1834)
Marquis of Granby (Ann H, J Bear 1834 Rate)
Royal Ann (no occupier 1834)
Star & Garter (William Francis 1834, William Francis 1839)
Chemist Manufacturing (Leesom, Henry Beaumont)
Coal Merchant (Mussett, Robert and Co.)
Junk Merchant (Mussett, James & Robert)
Marine Stores-Dealer (Godwin, John)
Marine Stores-Dealer (Morris, William)
Steam Miller (Powell, Francis)
Shopkeeper/Groceries and Sundries Dealer (Beiderbeck, Betsey)
Shopkeeper/Groceries and Sundries Dealer (Doyle, Peter)
Smith (Hughesdon, William)
Ship Chandler (Thomas G)

King Street (Upper Watergate?)

Fox (Thomas Hunt 1834, Joseph Hunt 1839)
Brazier/Tin-Plate Worker (Seager, Thomas)
Bricklayer (Smith, James)
Grocers/Tea Dealer (Bensted, Elizabeth)
Snack? Proprieter (M., John)

Old King Street

Red Lion Inn (Samuel Edwards 1834, Samuel Edwards 1839)
Bull and Butcher (William ? 1834, William Williams 1839)
Fishing Smack (Jason Moreland 1834, Tim Riordan 1839)
Freemasons' Arms (James William ? 1834, William Batch 1839)
Red Cow (John Fester 1834, Kenneth Philpott 1839)
Rose & Crown (Samuel M)
School/Academy (Kemp, William)
Baker (Bradbrook, Harriet)
Brazier/Tin-Plate Worker (Matthews, Richard)
Butcher (Scott, William)
Butcher (S*lmes, Jeremiah)
Cooper (Jacob Powling)
Furniture Broker (Scruton, John)
Grocers/Tea Dealer (Prudence, Thomas)
Hat Manufacturer/Hatter (Hyman, William)
Lighterman (Riddall, William)
Plumbers/Painter/Glazier (Berry, Arthur)
Mathmematics Teacher (Stoole, Jason)
Shopkeeper/Groceries and Sundries Dealer (Anderson, William)
Shopkeeper/Groceries and Sundries Dealer (Slone, Thomas David)
Shopkeeper/Groceries and Sundries Dealer (Waikman, Mary)
Slopseller (Barnard, Esther)
Slopseller (Chapman, Edmund)
Slopseller (Gibeon, Robert)
Timber Dealer (Poole, James)
Tobacco Pipe Maker (Gosling, William)

________________________________________________


SOURCES

1623 Deptford map
18th Century Deptford Strand map "Controller Bridge House Plan 57A"
1745 Rocque map
1755 Milne map
1833 Cruchley map
1834 Pigot directory
1839 Pigot directory
1844 Tithe map
1868 Os map
White, Ken (1997). The Deptford Pier and Riverside.

Other rate books (at Lewisham Local Studies) and directories may shed further light on the above:

1784 Bailey
1793-1798 Universal British Directory
1799 Holden
1801 Holden (supplement to 1799 or 1800 reprint)
1802 Holden
1803 Finch (Kent; main towns only)
1803 Holden
1804 Holden (supplement to 1803)
1805 Holden
1805 Holden (supplement to previous edition)
1808 Finch (Kent; main towns only)
1808 Holden
1809 Holden
1810 Holden
1811 Holden
1812 Holden
1813 Holden
1814-1815 Holden
1816 Underhill / Holden (London and 480 towns) at Guildhall Library
1817 Underhill / Holden
1822 Pigot London and Provincial
1822 Underhill / Holden
1823 Pigot London and Provincial (revised in 1824 and then in 1825)
1826 Pigot London and Provincial (re-printed in 1827 and then in 1828)
1827 Pigot Metropolitan (re-printed in 1828)
1830 Clayton
1832 Pigot London and Provincial (revised twice in 1833 for 1834)
1836 Pigot London Alphabetical… (revised with a supplement in 1837 and 1838)
1838 Robson Home Counties (19th edition in strong room at Guildhall Library)
1839/1840 Pigot
1845 Post Office Home Counties (Essex, Herts, Kent, Middlesex, Surrey, Sussex)
1846 Kelly (Kent) at Bexley Library
184 Post Office London and Nine Counties at British Library
1847 Bagshaw
1847 Post Office Hampshire with Essex, Herts, Kent, Middlesex, Surrey, Sussex
1850 Williams (Kent and Surrey; main towns only)
1851 Mason (Greenwich and Blackheath)
1851 Post Office Home Counties (Essex, Herts, Kent, Middlesex, Surrey, Sussex)
1852 Archdeacon (Greenwich, Woolwich incl. Deptford, Blackheath, Lewisham…)
1852 Bass (Deptford incl. Blackheath, Lee, Lewisham and Sydenham)
1855 Post Office Home Counties (Essex, Herts, Kent, Middlesex, Surrey, Sussex)
1857/1858 Meville (Kent)
1859 Post Office (Kent)
1859 Post Office Home Counties (Essex, Herts, Kent, Middlesex, Surrey, Sussex)
1860 Post Office London Suburban
1862 Post Office Home Counties (Essex, Herts, Kent, Middlesex, Surrey, Sussex)
1863 Post Office London Suburban


A great piece of research by Giles Gaffney. Hopefully more to come
Thanks

Andy