Whitcher Street.

 Hi there,

I came across your blog whilst looking for information on Whitcher Street, which appears to have existed between the late 1940s to 1970 or thereabouts.

My father, Albert Eric Whitcher (8/7/1927-28/7/2023, native of Epsom, Surrey) had learned in the early 70s that the street was being redeveloped, and purchased the street sign from the council.

It was on display in my childhood home in Battle, East Sussex, and later my father's home in Bury, Lancashire, to which he retired (that's another story of it's own).  I also live in Bury.

I attach a few photographs.  You can see me, aged perhaps 4 or 5, standing next to the sign in the little photo.

My Father was cremated and his ashes interred at the family grave in Epsom on 22/9/23, and there was a family memorial meal.  One of the relatives present was my cousin, the son of Dad's youngest sister.  He and his Mum are Australian - they emigrated there some 55-60 years ago.

We had a family photo taken at Dad's memorial meal with the Whitcher St sign, and my cousin asked that if I was going to sell it, please could he have it for his Mum as a birthday gift.  I agreed, and today he's sent me a picture of his Mum and their family at her birthday, with the street sign.

We're curious to know anything we can about Whitcher St.  I did several searches and found that it had had prefabs after WW2, now demolished, and that it appears on an Ordnance Survey TQ map (1947-1964) held at the National Library of Scotland.

Geographically, it sat above Knoyle St, running between Sanford St and towards Woodpecker St, following the railway line.  Nowadays, the only allusion is to Whitcher Place, 0.2m further down on the end of Chubworthy St, and not actually located on the original Whitcher St at all.  The NLS website has a transparency feature overlaying the OS TQ map with a modern satellite view.

We would be very interested in anything you or your readers can tell us about how the street was named, built or designated.

Thank you very much, and my Lord Jesus bless you and yours,

A Bedmaker ... Carrington House.

I have just discovered your Old Deptford web site. I see a lot of comments from 2012, but I hope you are still involved and interested. I have been researching a friend's family history, and found hergrandmother living in Douglas Street Deptford in the 1921 census.She was aged 46, wife and mother, but it was unusual that she had a occupation, which was apparently shared by about 100 other people in the area. She was a "bedmaker" employed by the LCC at Carrington House, Brookmill Road, Deptford. From the information on the web site about this "doss house" it doesn't sound a very congenial job!

Anyway I hope this tidbit was of some interest to you.

Yours, Dave Jacobs

Emperor of the United States

Hi All

My name is John Lumea. I live in Boston and am the founder of a nonprofit, THE EMPEROR NORTON TRUST, that since 2013 has been working on a variety of fronts — research, education, advocacy — to advance the legacy of a San Francisco eccentric and sometime visionary that declared himself "Emperor of the United States" in 1859 and went on to become a folk hero and patron saint of his adopted city.

He was born Joshua Abraham Norton in Deptford — the best evidence points to a birth date of 4 February 1818. Joshua was born to Jewish parents — John Norton and Sarah Norden — and, it appears that he was circumcised in Deptford on 13 February 1818. 

I recognize this is a long shot. But, I wonder if you or anyone else associated with the Old Deptford History project know anything about where in Deptford Joshua and his family lived? A street? An address? Was there a known "Jewish district" in Deptford at this time?

Joshua's family remained in Deptford for only another two years. They were among the "1820 Settlers" who emigrated to South Africa that year as part of a well-documented British colonization scheme. They boarded the ship Belle Alliance in Deptford in late December 1819. After being delayed by ice on the Thames for more than a month, the ship finally was able to sail on 12 February 1820.

Many thanks for any light you can shed on the Nortons' place of residence in Deptford.

  

John Lumea

Founder

THE EMPEROR NORTON TRUST

Deptford Memories by Jeff Manning

 My name is Jeff Manning, and I was born and bred in Deptford (1950-1970) and I would like to share my memories of Deptford with other deptfordites. 

Deptford had 2 excellent pie and mash shops I remember my brother and me eating in Goddards 

when it was in Evelyn Street but we also enjoyed pie and mash in Manzes 

(Pie and mash was one shilling and 4d for a Pepsi to wash it down.)  Does anyone remember the toy shop on Lamerton Street? 

See below a list of shops I remember:

Edwards the Bakers baked delicious Jam doughnuts they were only a penny each.

Fantos (Does anybody know when Fantos first came to Deptford?)

Mayne’s, Swans Bookstall (Deptford Market Yard), Woolworths

Johnson’s Bakers, Bridges Fish and Chip shop Douglas Way

Perry’s sweet shop Douglas Street, Pecry's

Rossi ice cream shop (Deptford high street and New Cross Road)

Marks and Spencer, Ovenells (Winkle Stall), Lillie’s (Shere Road)

Shopping in Deptford High Street on a Saturday with my mum in the fifties used to take a long time before supermarkets you had to queue up at all the different shops, but it was always busy and vibrant in Deptford then, the crowds so big sometimes you had to walk in the road.

 Deptford High Street Signs

10  Trickett Co Ltd 1889 160 -162 Rebuilt 1846

45 Red Lion & Wheatsheaf

77  Caxton House? (Ladies School in the 1820s)

91 Deptford High Street Built in 1898

Corner of Hamilton Street and Deptford High street 2 small street signs (Hamilton street and Hamilton Place)

thanks all

Jeff

 

 

13 Deptford High Street.

 Hello

Thank you for creating the old deptford history website I have enjoyed reading the articles and looking at the old photos,it brought back so many wonderful memories.

I was born and bred in Deptford and have always had an interest in the history of Deptford. I was always curious about the building at number 13 Deptford High Street with its  pillars at the front , 3 steps and the iron railings, it seemed out of place with the rest of the buildings near it.

Could you please let me know if you any information about this building?

Cheers

Jeff

Jeff Manning

Hi Jeff

The London  Street directory shows Lipton Ltd  occupying  the property.

London Street Listings in 1940.

Deptford High street 
West side
1 Maison Alvarez, ladies tailor
4,7 & 9 Burton Montague Ltd, tailors
11 Sandford Bros, fruiterers
13 Lipton Ltd, provision dealers
13A Wellbeloved William Hy, butcher

It's obvious Liptons where in the area.

Help for Warren McIver tracing family History.

Hi All

The story I have is less a story about Deptford and more about a family mystery that led me to Deptford. I live in Auckland New Zealand. My son and his family live in Walthamstow in London and we visit as often as we can to help out with their young family. I have always had the unusual feeling when we visit that I belong here. I hold the name McIver because that was my father’s adopted name. He was adopted by his grandmother and her 3rd husband. His family emigrated to NZ from Northern Ireland in the 1880s. His grandmother’s family was of Shetland Island and Swedish origin, both families emigrating to NZ in the 1870s. My mother’s family is of Scottish heritage, Macerlichs, and MacDonalds. They emigrated to NZ in the 1920s My Dad was born illegitimately and he never knew who his birth father was. He was born in 1920 and died in 1990. 

About 15 years ago I started to research his upbringing only to find that the documentary record of who his birth father has never existed and family history ( if it ever existed ) had been lost as those family generations departed. About 3 years ago I decided to use DNA as my research tool.  Aided by some experts in this field and some serendipity, including Johnson descendants in England that knew of their grandfather’s lost half-brother who came to NZ but knew some snippets of information, I positively identified John Johnson of Deptford as my ‘lost’ grandfather.

My recent visit to Watergate St was the first chance I have had to visit since the  Covid travel restrictions. I was very happy to read your Old Deptford website and will use that to continue my research and to communicate my findings within our family.

So, a story not directly related to the history of Deptford, but some of your readers may know of the Johnson family of lightermen of Deptford.

Regards and thanks

Warren McIver

Princess of Wales Pub

 

Hello,

 Hoping the Deptford history community might be able to help me out with something...

 My partner recently bought a ground floor flat in the former Princess of Wales pub (88 Grove Street), which was converted into flats in 2006 and I'm keen to hear from anyone who might have photos of the interior of this building when it was still a pub and if not photos, then any kind of description of how it looked inside (the layout, etc), or even any anecdotes or memories of time spent in there.

Sadly, when the building was converted, all original features and any kind of character were removed from the ground floor and basement (the upper floors still have some original fireplaces, ceiling roses, etc). We're about to embark on stripping out and redesigning the flat he's bought and as a history-obsessed designer, I want to make sure we're being sympathetic to the building's history. All memories of this place would be welcomed!

 

Thanks

 

Hannah

Patrick 'Patsy' Houlihan, Deptford born and bred.

 Hi everyone,

I'm a sports writer and historian and currently researching a book about the life of Patrick 'Patsy' Houlihan, Deptford born and bred and the greatest snooker hustler of all time as well as former amateur national snooker champion and later a snooker professional too.

I would love to hear from anyone who knew Patsy or has any information or memories about him.

A synopsis of my book is below...

Many thanks

Luke G. Williams

Email lgw007@yahoo.com

Patsy with Jimmy White

The Natural: The Story of Patsy Houlihan, the Greatest Snooker Player You Never Saw is the compelling story of a man who potted balls fast and potted them hard.

South Londoner Patsy Houlihan was one of the top amateurs of the 50s and 60s as well as the greatest hustler of all time. He should have been a major player on the world stage, but the professional game was a closed shop and the likes of Patsy weren’t welcome.

 

However, in the smoke-filled snooker halls of the backstreets of working-class Britain, populated by tough men seeking to make a quick buck from the game they loved, Patsy was a folk hero and an inspiration to a generation of players, including his close friend Jimmy White. 

 

A snooker pioneer and a master entertainer, this is the story of the greatest snooker player who never made it to the big time, but whose exploits, adventures, and skills guaranteed him immortality in the minds and imaginations of those lucky enough to have seen him play.

 

The Natural brings to vivid life the story of great forgotten talent.

Deptford Decades from the Deptford Ragged School Archives.

 

Residents of Deptford  tell their stories.

My thanks to Katharine Alston of the Deptford Ragged School Archives for her permission to publish this video.  Please visit the website  www.deptfordraggedschoolarchive.org.uk

Buttons of Deptford

The image is from http://www.thamesbuttons.com/page1.html
The button was found on the Thames foreshore by Mike 'Cuffs' Walker

Brian's Button

Hi, my name is Brian. I live in North Carolina in the United States. I was recently metal detecting on an and uninhabited Island on the coast called Cape Lookout. I found a button with the word Deptford on it. I’m assuming J Taylor was the Tailor who made it. I’ve been searching the web trying to find more information about this person and came upon your blog. I was wondering if anyone could help me find information on this person. How cool is it that this button made it all the way to North Carolina?

Cape Lookout 
View from Lighthouse 

 

Our Shop part 2

Here's a story involving our shop which might interest you, and might even jog some memories

I must have been about 9 or 10 years old when this happened.

Opposite Wilson street, on the other side of New Cross Road, there was a fried fish shop, I guess you might call it a fish and chip shop today, but we just called it, 'the fish shop'. I can't remember it's name. One day a horse and cart was parked outside the fish shop when a steam engine went past. I don't mean a train, but rather a road-based steam engine. If my memory is correct, anyone delivering using a horse and cart had to make sure that someone was holding the horse's reins whilst the delivery was taking place, I think this was the law at the time. So usually there were at least two people with a horse and cart. The steam engine terrified the horse, and the horse was unattended, or the person with it was not holding the reins, or they were and the horse got away from them, I'm afraid I don't know exactly why, but the horse bolted, and headed down Wilson Street.

It ended up by crashing through our shop door and putting it's front hooves on the counter. It had stopped because the drawbars for the cart had become wedged in the doorway. I didn't see all this myself, as I was at school. When I got home the doors were seriously damaged, and there were two hoof marks on the counter of the shop. These hoof marks stayed there until the shop was destroyed by a bomb in the early years of the war. Thanks goodness there were no customers in the shop at the time! I remember that the doors had to be repaired, and this was a little awkward as they were slightly rounded, being on the corner of the building. I don't know who got the horse out of the shop, or whether anyone paid for the repairs.