I found this photo entitled a Deptford Slum Street? Can anyone tell me where it could be? The tower in the background could be a good eye catcher to identify it.
Was it Queen Street ......now Lamerton Street?
Update.
I took this picture last January/Feb 09. On the right is Manze's and on the left, out of view, William Hill Betting Shop. The two photos match quite well and have similarities from a building outline perspective. Manze's building outline does look similar albeit some windows and door placements may have been altered? Looking at the old map below published 1874, it shows Queen Street as it was then. Notice the PH, Public House mark on the left which could relate to the R Whites Ginger Beer and lemonade notice in the original photo above. Another thing I notice was the 45 degree angled /beveled brickwork on the right hand side in the original photo. In the recent photo I took last year of Manze's it doesn't show an angled corner so I thought it couldn't be the same location. It wasn't until I scrutinised the map further that I noticed it originaly did! I've enlarged the area I am referring to. The only thing that doen't seem the same are the dimensions of the road and pavement surfaces...seems to small and of course there's that Chimney......... Any comments please....?
Update.
The good suggestion by Shipwrights that it could be the Queen St off of Old King St. seems possible, but shown here on the map... Queen St...... is open at both ends. In the originalphoto it appears blocked off. Now ...If you look North there is a Queen's Court? which looks small enough in width and length and has a blocked, dead end to the east, but obviously looks away from the foundry area (I think) where a chimney tower could have been? Looking east on the map I could find no "works etc" the would have employed a tower chimney.
Andy
19 comments:
The street sign top-right looks like it probably says 'Queen Street'.
A fascinating picture - and it doesn't look all that slummy (all very clean and with some rather appealing advertising signs on the shop). I wonder if that's unfair labelling of the photo, or too much optimism on the part of this viewer?
There was a Queen Street that ran off the former(Old) King Street, now Watergate Street.
so the chimney could possibly be the chimney to the smithey in the dockyard?
Wonder when it was taken? One of the adverts seems to be for R.White's Ginger Beer, but that doesn't help with the dating as they were going from mid-19th century.
Hey everyone thanks for your input fantastic its got me thinking now. You know Caroline I agree with you it looks very tidy and well kept not at all like a slum. I think its time to look at maps ariel views and see whether anything comes to light.
Hi Andy
Looking at the photo of the "Deptford slum", I tend to disagree that it was Queen Street. The ornate masonry on the Manze’s shop front looks old and matches shops further along the high Street. The pub shown on the map which is now William hills was called the City Arms. I don’t think it’s a pub shown in the photo but a shop. Compare my picture and see what you think.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/matt1965/3182305634/in/set-72157612230122657/
Also on a detailed map such as the one you’ve shown a chimney that size would have been shown. Perhaps “Shipwrights Palace” is nearer the mark with the comment about it being near the dockyard.
Matt
Hi Matt,
Ive posted an update ref Shipwrights plausible comments & observations. I take your input as being also near the mark. I would like to think it was Queen St. but its that chimney that spoils it. I was thinking that if the beveled brickwork on the right hand side of the photo was removed and the side of the building rebuilt at some time it would have opened up the street to it present width. In the early 50's most pubs that I knew in Deptford sold R Whites. So being just a shop doesn't sound right to me. Having a pub as you say on that corner, The City Arms, and the radius brickwork does bring it closer to being Queen/Lamerton Street. But it all falls down because of the chimney..ugh..because it's location would be somewhere at the bottom of Albury/Church St. Chris at Crossfieldswhat blog looked at the shadows from the sun to determin what axis the street is on. Now if it's setting approximately (West) the photos looking south or north if it rising (East). Was there a chimney at the Boiler Works, Butchers Row?
I think the original picture may be decieving as far as the width of the road goes. If you count the number of bricks in the road and measure wall to wall, you can get approx 30 bricks wall to wall. An average Victorian brick is 8'1/2 making the width of the road roughly 21"3'. Today you can fit 2 cars side by side with a small amount of space either side. An average parking space is 7"10', multiplied by 2 is 15"8'. Even allowing for error this seems to be wide enough.
Now for the chimney - is it not possible that it is located north of Creek Road on the other side of the creek? It also may not be a dead end but the roads off at the end aren't visable.
As for the shadows if this was taken around midday the sun will be high in the sky but to the south (right of picture).
I can only think this is Queen Street / Lamerton and that is just from my 30 years experience of living in various locations in Bermondsey & Deptford!
Great site though, great pic too
Looking again, ignore what I said about the chimney! The smaller ones with smoke could be where I said, but the big one...
No idea.
Thanks for your comments Paul.
I to like to think its Queens St..but Ive scoured the old maps and just havent found that chimney yet. I will find it ....be assured..
It looks like Ffinch Street, to me ?
Hi, This is Benmore Street, my father grew up there.
Hi Julie, that's great news where was the chimney??
Hi Andy, My Aunt says that the chimney is Val de Travers asphalt and paving works. At the end of Benmore street turn left into Hamar place, there were dwellings on only one side of the road and they looked out onto the factory wall.
Hello Julie and thanks for clearing the mystery street up. Its great when someone who's lived there can confirm all the details that's been stalling the identification of this location. One more thing can you tell me what was the shop on the left in the photo? Was it a Pub or Off licence?
regards
Andy
Hi again Julie ...where was Benmore and Hamar Place. seems to have gone?
Hi Andy, The shop on the corner was a general grocery store owned by the Dabin family, the gates just past the shop were the entrance to their back yard. Grace Dabin, the mother, used to pay my uncle to say swear words. The opposite corner was a house occupied by Italians, the man was known as Tary Jack (because he had very dark skin) he had a hand cart, in summer he sold ice cream and in winter he fitted a brazier and sold chestnuts. Apparently the roads in that area were named after Scottish mountains.
Looking at the 1894 ordnance survey map Benmore St was a turning off Knott St. Turn left at end into Hamar Place, at end turn left into Dugald St which brings you back to Knott St. Following the slum clearance in 1933 Knott St became a continuation of Creekside. You will find the site opposite Bronze St.
Hi Julie,
That's interesting information... just the type of memories I find facinating and which are difficult to find in any book of Deptford.
I had to laugh "pay your uncle to swear" lol....What all that about?
If it is Queen's Court (off New King Street) looking east, then the chimney and steam-covered large building in the background could be Deptford Power Station, which first generated electricity in 1891. The power station was never correctly shown on maps, but covered the area north of The Stowage adjacent to St Nicholas church. It could equally be Benmore Street, although I cannot agree Val de Travers asphalt and paving works would have required a chimney of that size; if Benmore Street, the chimney is probably across the river.
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